10 March 1976 — Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 7.9.32

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Translation: “O my Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, after annihilation, the creative energy is kept in Yourself, but the energy being put within Yourself, it appears that You are sleeping with half-closed eyes. Actually, there is no sleeping like an ordinary human being. You are always in the transcendental stage, beyond the creation of the material world, and You always feel in transcendental bliss. In this way, You, Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, remain in Your transcendental status, but although it appears that Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is sleeping, it is not that; sleeping distinct from sleeping in ignorance.”

Prabhupāda:

nyasyedam ātmani jagad vilayāmbu-madhye

śeṣetmanā nija-sukhānubhavo nirīhaḥ

yogena mīlita-dṛg-ātma-nipīta-nidras

turye sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe

(SB 7.9.32)

This is the position, transcendental behavior. How we use this word “transcendental,” that is explained here, what is transcendental. Turya. Turya, the fourth dimension. Here, in this material world, there are three dimensions: length, breadth and height. And spiritual world, beyond that, not within the measurement of length, breadth and height, that is called turya. (child crying) (aside) Child . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The child . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So we have already discussed that without spiritual touch there is no material creation. That is not possible. So modern scientists, they’re missing this point, all big, big scientists. It is very simple thing, but they cannot understand. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Although they’re advertised to be very advanced in knowledge, but actually they have no knowledge. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They cannot find out that within the matter there must be spirit; otherwise there is no creation. There must be. We have used this example often, that matter . . . a dead child means matter. This body is lump of matter, but on account of presence of the spirit soul we have got working arrangement of this body. There is hand, there is leg, there is head, there is ear—everything is being utilized. But when the spirit soul is not there, what is the value of this head, leg or hand? Anyone can see to it.

So the same principle is applicable to the whole cosmic creation, that even within the ant the same principle, within Brahmā the same principle, and within the gigantic universe the same principle. Without the spirit soul, there is no question of creation. Creation, maintenance and destruction—three things are going on, on account of presence of the Supreme Soul. Therefore the three principal deities—Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara—are there, guṇa-avatāra. He is not within the guṇa; therefore He expands Himself as guṇāvatāra: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. But He’s turya of the guṇas. Just like if we enter into the fire, we’ll be burned, but sometimes the fire brigade men, they enter into the fire. They have got suit and contradictory dress that they can enter into the fire. Similarly, māyā . . . māyā is very strong, but Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, when He comes within this material world—yuge yuge sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6)—He comes in His own original turya status. He does not become affected. Guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe. He’s not affected. This is the position of Kṛṣṇa. He’s always transcendental. Na me karma-phale spṛhā. Na māṁ limpanti karma . . .

Śāstrījī: Na māṁ limpanti karmāṇi . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti na me karma-phale spṛhā (BG 4.14). This is position. We are here under the pressure of karma-phala. By the result of our past lives’ fruitive activities we have got this body, material body. That is also not our real body. That is the body of the prison house, just like when a criminal is put into the prison house, he is given a different dress. In hospital, in prison house, when a man is there, his original dress is taken. It is kept. When he’s released from the hospital or jail, the same dress is again returned. Otherwise, his present dress is taken and a separate dress is given. Similarly, we have got our spiritual body, not that we are zero, as the Māyāvādī thinks. We are not zero. We have got our spiritual body but very, very small. Very small. The measurement is given: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Very minute. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.20). The Supreme Lord is great. “God is great.” He’s greater than the greatest, and He is smaller than the smallest. He is . . . the living entity is even smaller than the atom, but it has got a body. It is not that without body. We cannot imagine. Just like sometimes we see at night some microbic ant, very small, almost like full stop, but it is moving very nicely here and there. So the same physiological construction, anatomy, is there. Everything is there. So this is God’s creation. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. It can also fly. We can manufacture a flying machine, 747, but we cannot manufacture a flying machine like that microbic ant. That is not possible.

So this is God’s creation, everything wonderful. But still, He’s above, turya. He’s not within this creation. He’s creating, but He’s not within it. Etad īśanam iṣasya. This is called godly power. He is within everything, and He is without still. So that is understood here. Nyasyedam ātmani jagat vilayāmba-madhye. Amba-madhye . . . yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidram ananta (BS 5.47). He appears to be sleeping. Ananta-kāla. Again creation and, what is called, annihilation is going on. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā (BS 5.48). This creation and annihilation is going on continually. And what is the time difference? Niśvasita-kālam. Just like we exhale and inhale, a second, similarly, this creation-annihilation is a second for Mahā-Viṣṇu. So millions and millions of years stays. Everything is created, and it stays for some time. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti pralaya (BS 5.44), three stages.

So between the sṛṣṭi, creation, and pralaya, annihilation, there is one period which is called sthiti. That sthiti means the life of Brahmā. When the life of Brahmā is finished, then there is no more sthiti; it is now annihilated. Now you can calculate what is the life of Brahmā. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Our one thousand years, and multiplied by the years of yuga . . . the yuga year means forty-three hundred thousands of years, and multiplied by one thousand, that period is Brahmā’s twelve hours, day. Now you can imagine . . . it is beyond your mathematical calculation, but still, there is calculation in the śāstra, and that is, such hundred years is the duration of sthiti. But that sthiti, before Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, is the moment, just like we exhale and inhale. So sṛṣṭi-sthiti. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya (BS 5.48). They take only that much time which is between exhaling and inhaling. That Mahā-Viṣṇu. That Mahā-Viṣṇu has placed Himself in this material energy, maha-tattva, and by His niśvasa, by His inhaling and exhaling, the material energy is agitated. Then the three guṇas are there. Then, by interaction, counteraction, the whole creation takes place.

Nyasyedam ātmani jagad vilayāmbu-madhye śeṣe. Śeṣe: “Lying down on the Śeṣa-mūrti.” Ātmanā nija-sukhānubhavo . . . “He is not obliged, as we are placed in certain condition of life, being obliged.” Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). I have got this body; you have got this body. It is not sukhānubhavaḥ. Here it is said that nija-sukhānubhavaḥ. This is called pastime. He is not obliged, but he takes pleasure. Just like sometimes we take pleasure in the swimming pool, lie down and closing our eyes. Who are expert swimmer, they’re lying down. Why it is not possible for the Supreme Lord? (laughter) What is the difficulty? Sukhānubhavaḥ. We take that pastime for pleasure, for pleasure, lying down on the water, closing eyes. So when we speak, “The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu lying down in the Causal Ocean,” these rascals, fools, they sometimes criticize, “And how it is possible?” How it is not possible? If a ordinary man can take pleasure lying down on the water, closing and lying for hours—we have seen it—so what is the difficulty for the Supreme Lord? You have got this tendency to lie down on water, half on the water, and close your eyes. So where your tendency has come? Your tendency has come because the same tendency is there in the Supreme Lord. This is the explanation. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jayante. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is the Vedic . . . everything, whatever you see, that is there in the Supreme Being. Why we make love affairs with young girls or young boys? Because the same propensity is there. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama sevyamānam (BS 5.29). Kṛṣṇa is enjoying in Goloka Vṛndāvana with so many young girls. That tendency to enjoy the company of young girls or young boys is there. Otherwise wherefrom it has come? That is the explanation. Everything, whatever you see, everything—janmādy asya yataḥ—that is there.

So this sleeping of Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is not extraordinary. We can . . . if we study our, I mean to say, inclination, our sense of pleasure; if we simply study ourself, you’ll find that the Supreme Lord possessing the same thing but in turya, without any touch of māyā or without any touch of the three guṇas. Then you can understand what is God. God means . . . because we are part and parcel of God, so you study yourself, you’ll find the same quality. Just like a small drop of seawater. You analyze it, what chemicals are there—the same chemicals are in the ocean. The difference is quantity. Quality, the same. That is called acintya-bhedābheda tattva. We are qualitatively one with God, not quantitatively. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think we are also quantitatively the same. That is mistake. That is not possible. Otherwise, why it is said, sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe (SB 7.9.32)? This . . . He is so big that He is above these qualities. Just like we become infected in a filthy place, but the sun does not become infected. It rather sterilizes that infected place. So we should not compare with God, that “I am equal to Him.” No. That is not possible. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). The sun, when it absorbs water from the urinal, he is not infected. He makes that urinal sterilized. Similarly, if sometimes we see some behavior of the Supreme Lord which appears from social . . . our social point of view as not permitted . . . but He can do anything. That is the meaning of all-powerful. But He’s not affected. He’s not affected. Apāpa-viddham (ISO 8). Apāpa-viddham, in the Upaniṣad, Īśopaniṣad, that sinful activities . . . He cannot do anything which is sinful. God is always good. But to our calculation, limited calculation, if we see that He is committing something sinful, it is not sinful; it is sterilizing. The same example: tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). If by chanting His holy name we become sinless, how God can become sinful? It is not possible. This is common sense. If by chanting His holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

Devotees: . . . Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Prabhupāda: . . . so we become purified, how Kṛṣṇa can be impure? It is not possible. Pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Try to understand Kṛṣṇa.

Here is explanation, that sthito na tu tamo na guṇāṁś ca yuṅkṣe. This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Never, never think . . . there are some party, they say, “We worship Kṛṣṇa, Bāla-Kṛṣṇa, boy Kṛṣṇa.” Sometimes they give reason that why not, I mean to say, grown-up Kṛṣṇa. They say that “Grown-up Kṛṣṇa was polluted by rāsa-līlā.” Just see the foolish nonsense. That is not . . . Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. This is foolish conclusion, that child Kṛṣṇa is pure than young Kṛṣṇa. This is wrong conception. Kṛṣṇa is . . . just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, He could kill a big, gigantic witch, that Pūtanā. Can a three months’ old child can kill such a big . . .? No. Kṛṣṇa is always God. Either He appears in three months or three hundred years or three thousand years, He is the same. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (BS 5.33). This is Kṛṣṇa.

So by studying Kṛṣṇa, you become liberated. So these verses should be studied very carefully, understanding each word very carefully. Then you’ll understand Kṛṣṇa. Kavirāja Gosvāmī has said, siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa, iha ha-ite kṛṣṇe lāge sudṛḍha mānasa (CC Adi 2.117). Siddhānta, what is Kṛṣṇa, if you study from the śāstras, then siddhānta boliyā citte: don’t be lazy in understanding Kṛṣṇa. Because if you try to understand Kṛṣṇa sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākyaṁ tinete kariya aikya—through the sādhu, śāstra and guru—then you understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is. Then you’ll not take Him as ordinary human being, as foolish person taking. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritaḥ (BG 9.11). Mūḍhās, rascals, they think Kṛṣṇa as one of us. Then you’ll not be a mūḍha. You’ll be intelligent. And what is the effect? Kṛṣṇa says personally, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If you understand Kṛṣṇa perfectly well . . . of course, we cannot know Kṛṣṇa perfectly. He’s so big and you are so small that it is impossible. That is not possible. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa as much as He explains Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. That much will help you. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa cannot understand Himself; therefore He came as Caitanya, to understand Himself.

So it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa, but Kṛṣṇa is giving about . . . knowledge about Himself, as far as we can understand. That is Bhagavad-gītā. So at least you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as far instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. There is no other business. If you simply stick to this business, your life is successful. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for that purpose. We are opening so many centers so that the people of the world may take advantage of this opportunity and understand Kṛṣṇa and make his life successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (end)